The Case For and Against Sverigedemokraterna

20 Sep
2010

The fate of the country does not depend on how you vote at the polls — the worst man is as strong as the best at that game; it does not depend on what kind of paper you drop into the ballot-box once a year, but on what kind of man you drop from your chamber into the street every morning. – Henry David Thoreau, Slavery in Massachusetts

Dear Sweden,

Let’s get this straight, I don’t support Sverigedemokraterna (Sweden’s Democrats). I am also a brown person and an immigrant in Sweden. My vote may not matter, but my voice does. The SD has an ugly history of racism and more extreme, Nazi party ties (basically bat shit crazy). SD supports France’s Le Pen’s National Front, strong nationalistic views and a “multicultual world not multicultural society”. This usually makes for a bad combination.

Today, the Sweden Democrats won 5.6% of the national vote and obtained seats in the Swedish Parliament (Riksdag) along with the conservative parties. Swedes are in an uproar that they could even be voted in and appalled that a “racist” organization can obtain legal representation. As a note, in Sweden, being openly racist and making racist comments can be considered a hate crime. Now, there is an entire party based on anti-immigration, specifically anti-Islam, which has government power.

In a democratic society, you may disagree with others’ opinions but they have a right to representation. That exactly what the 5,6% did: express their displeasure with the current government and vote for change. I disagree with Sverigedemokraterna; I think they are crazy but I believe they have a right to be represented in the government. Maybe they will not be the villans Swedish society portrays them.

But there is another side to this whole story. The SD is troubling in many ways but it serves a necessary evil in society. Take this example, millions in Arizona supported checking anyone “suspicious of being legal in the United States,” which in turn meant “if you’re brown, we can ask for your papers.” It was the next level in combating illegal immigration problems in the US (more than 11 million people are verified as illegal). States are taking control to discover “suspicious non residents,” chiefly Mexicans. Obviously racist and xenophobic.

As disturbing as the Arizona law was, millions of Americans, the Department of Homeland Security, the border watchdogs and more are concerned about immigration. Tea Party supporters are screaming “Take back America” while others want to kick out all illegal immigrants. It’s scary, it’s frightening and it’s terrifying as a brown person to know that some citizens watch with suspicion and derision.

This leads to the point: the racists, the ones supporting deportation/anti-immigration, are a necessary evil IF I know who they are. Because they protest, voice their opinions, and cast ballots, I know they exist. I also learn that I must combat their rhetoric. Because if they, be it SD or the Tea Party supporters, are forced into hiding, no one know what racist thoughts and actions they can execute.

I have to know who my enemy is in order to fight them. I also understand that peacefully through civil disobedience both sides (mine and theirs), have the right to assimilate and protest. We also have the right to persuade others to do the right thing (fight racism in my case).

Without SD or the Tea Party baggers existing in the public, I never know who they are. They are the KKK, but invisible; capable of terrorizing people without being found. It could be a neighbor, store clerk, boss, friend, bus driver but if they are in hiding, I will never know. And when they strike at me, I will be caught unaware.

Racism did not grow from thin air; it grew from discontent, violence, and instability in society. Swedes, just now realised racism is a problem in their country. That is Paradise Lost; the failure and hubris to believe racism does not exist in their land. It is no wonder other countries snicker at the election today.

There are no easy solutions. America continues to battle its part that nearly destroyed the nation. It also battles new forms of xenophobia every generation. But as a start, the immigrants in Sweden must be given means to achieve a better life through education, vocation classes for adults, and true Swedish learning programs. Fuck SFI, give me a real class that teaches Swedish.

But for the immigrants, including myself, it is not a carte blanche to ‘do as you please.’ We are in Sweden, we must assimilate and abide by Swedish laws. We can add some flair to the melting pot, but we cannot change the majority and a country’s heritage to suit our religious/cultural whims.

That is where America has done right. American takes in a melange of cultures and pushes out what complements American culture. The United States has a strongly defined culture. There is a reason why people take a citizenship test and receive a citizenship ceremony upon becoming Americans; it attests to the American way.

Socialdemokraterna and the RödGrön alliance expressed they will “never speak to SD in the Riksdag.” But where does that put society? To ignore people’s suffrage in the country’s highest governing body, undermines democracy and free speech. SD maybe against every single feeling of your body, but if you are representing the populous, so are they. To ignore SD in the Parliament, will lead to the exact opposite reaction we want: SD will play the victim and earn even more support. Instead of heading for a standoff in the Riksdag, why not work together? Perhaps SD is not as bat shit crazy as we believe…perhaps they are. Only legislation votes will tell.

I want all political parties, red, blue, green, purple, orange, to work with SD to form policies that support Sweden and Sweden’s national interests. THAT is political power and representation. Center left or right, the Parliament has to function as one. Otherwise you could end up like the US Congress: a schism of disunity.

This is the time for Swedes to rise up. To take action. It is, for the first time in Swedish history, that race relations plays a significant part of society. Sweden must accept that with different races/ethnicities discrimination and racism inevitably exists. However, the Riksdag must step forward and pave the way for a more equal and open society.

In the end, Sveriges Democraterna are Sweden’s necessary evil to open race relation discussions in the country. How else can we assimilate 10% of our foreign population if the government cowers away from decisions?

Fellow Swedes, take this not as a loss for Sweden. If you take defeat, you will lose. Take this as a way to support immigrants and create legislation for a more harmonious and equal society.

With best wishes for a hopeful Sweden,
The voices that matter

PS. Flaming, insulting, discriminating, or derision of any sort will not be tolerated. Take your shit elsewhere.

PPS. “Necessary evil” does not mean someone/something is evil. It means someone/something is an unpleasant and unpopular choice but exists to achieve a result.. A “necessary evil” balances the scale.

Share with friends

65 Responses to The Case For and Against Sverigedemokraterna

Avatar

Hanna

September 20th, 2010 at 03:34

Hello there!

“To ignore people’s suffrage in the country’s highest governing body, undermines democracy and free speech.”

Uh, no, do you happen to know that Socialdemokraterna and Miljöpartiet have formed an allegience with Vänsterpartiet and does not have anything to do with Sverigedemokraterna what so ever? Do you know how swedish politics work?

Here. Moderaterna, Kristdemokraterna, Centerpartiet and Folkpartiet forms one allegience: The right wing, the blue. Then we have the left wing, the red. They’re an allegiance of Socialdemokraterna, Miljöpartiet and Vänsterpartiet. The right won, so there’s not even a question of the left wing, whom you’re quoting, to colaborate with Sverigedemokraterna. And it doesn’t matter, the right wing doesn’t have to do that either because swedish politics does not work that way. The right wind doesn’t want to colaborate with Sverigedemokraterna anyways.

The thing is that most people in Sweden, well, they hate Sverigedemokraterna, and it’s not a crime against the freedom of speech to allow political parties to say that they don’t like and don’t want to colaborate with another swedish party. That’s bullshit. And since we live in a democracy, and most people happen to feel an intense disgust for Sverigedemokraterna, it’s just a question of democracy. Most voters don’t want them, and so, the other political parties act on the wishes of their voters.

Democracy is not about sitting quietly by and letting things happen just to be nice to racists. It’s about the opinion of the people, and the people in Sweden feel no love towards Sverigedemokraterna.

Avatar

a Swede

September 20th, 2010 at 04:30

Honestly, who said they are nazi, hostile towards alliens etc? Our commie media? Yeah nice sources you’ve got. I casted my vote on SD and belive it or not, I am not against immigration aslong as the immigrants adopts to the Swedish way of life.

“If you move to Rome, you do things as the Romans does” a wiseman once said. Same should go for here, fleeing dictatorship in yoyur homecountries doesn’t mean you can come here demanding Sweden to adapt to you and not vice versa.

In Sweden you act like a swede or get the fark out of here. We can’t even raise our flag at our schools anymore on our nationalday becuase some immigrants might feel offended (that’s the reality). That’s why people vote SD and not to instantly deport all non-swedes as you think.

Avatar

Kyr

September 20th, 2010 at 11:05

Sorry but this article is quite subjective and just uses “black and white” thinking.

A 5% share of the votes is actually quite little compared to what has happened in the rest of Europe, and have there been any negative consequences there? Any hate-crimes? I don’t think so.

Maybe you should study why they have a share of the votes now, and why similiar parties have a much larger share in the rest of Europe, instead of just saying they’re “bat shiite crazy” and a “necessary evil”, and then maybe you’ll come to a more realistic stance on the matter of things.

“but we cannot change the majority and a country’s heritage to suit our religious/cultural whims.”

Perhaps YOU think so, but that is not the case in general.

“That is where America has done right”

America is a young nation FOUNDED on immigration, Sweden is not.

By the way, I am a swede in a muslim country at the moment, and I can assure you that YOU are MUCH more accepted in Sweden, than I am here, so stop being so selfish.

/kyr

Avatar

Erik

September 20th, 2010 at 12:19

To “a Swede”: They have, for a fact, connections to an old nazi party, and still got a lot of members from that time, you can’t deny that. And they have, for a fact, a lot of supporters that are extreme racists, you see it and hear it every day. (And no, not just in the media, even though the media reports a lot of it) but especially on blogs and the Internet.

I have spoken to a lot of immigrant people, and I consider many of them to be my friends, and they don’t want to “change” Sweden as you nicely put it. Of course some immigrants want to “change” the country, but they are still entitled to that belief since we live in a democracy and have freedom of speech, that applies to everyone, not just you. (Oh, and by the way, we also have freedom of religion if you didn’t know that already, so you are entitled to have other beliefs than the Christian one, like Islam or Hinduism. If you take away those elements we loose our right to call ourselves a democracy.)

You cannot and should not force someone to change their opinions. “You can believe whatever you want as long as you believe what I want”. Isn’t that the motto of every dictator that has ever existed? That is not integration, that’s assimilation. (a.k.a. brainwashing)

And what are you talking about? Here in Stockholm all the schools, all the buses and a lot of homes raises their Swedish flags on the national holiday, and about 40% of Stockholms population consists of first and second generation immigrants. Even if you go into Rinkeby and Tensta you will see the Swedish flag raised.
Now you are acting like that SD guy who carved a swastika in to his own forehead and said “I got attacked by immigrants, I blame all my problems on them!” It’s no wonder SD main voters are “low income, low educated young men living on the countryside”. Korkade bönder helt enkelt.

HOWEVER after saying all this don’t deny that there are problems with the immigration POLITICS in Sweden, not the immigrants themselves. But that is a failure on our part, not the immigrants.

Avatar

gabriel

September 20th, 2010 at 12:20

Interesting piece. None of this would have happened if the mainstream political parties discussed openly and tried to solve the problems associated with integration.

Now the problems around integration will get more media and hopefully political attention.

The real sinister question is whether the SD will pull Swedish politics more to the right all together, just like Fox News and conservative right wingers in the US have managed to do in recent decades.

Another curious thing to note, is that the parties of the red-green alliance called SD racists, but I don’t hear that type of firey rhetoric from the Alliance.

Avatar

Andrew

September 20th, 2010 at 12:24

Myself, I am an immigrant to Sweden as well (head-hunted), but believe I’ve been moderately successful at adopting Swedish culture, but at the same time, retaining my heritage, from where I’m from. Politically, I consider myself to be libertarian, but that is irrelevant.

On of the questions people are NOT asking is, “Why did 5.6% of voting Swedes vote this way?” That’s 1 in 20 voting Swedes. Do they really believe immigration is such a huge problem? Do they feel that the mainline parties are not doing the job right? What has driven these people to feel this way?

In a democracy, you have the right to vote and make sure your views/opinions are represented via your ballot. For all the other parties to shun 5.7%[1] of the voting population makes them no better than SD and hating the 5%[2] of the Muslim population. Hating the haters doesn’t make it right, or make you any better, instead they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

What the parties SHOULD do is have an open dialogue with them and work forwards towards a better Sweden. Who knows, they may be bat-shit crazy, but an idea they have (as immature as it may be) could lead to some though provoking discussion and new, positive laws being formed.

Even Swedish politicians have agreed, Swedish immigration has failed [3]. So this is something that definitely needs to be address before Sweden can move forward as a country.

[1] http://www.val.se/
[2] http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2009/127339.htm
[3] http://www.thelocal.se/22244/20090923/

Avatar

Rylin

September 20th, 2010 at 13:31

I’m well aware that the below comes out sounding like a troll — bear with me though!

I’d say a huge part of the “problem” is how the MSM shunned SD from the beginning.
The official party line is that SD are not racist, are not hostile to foreigners, but have huge issues with immigration and integration policies.

Having grown up in one of the worse-off suburbs of Stockholm during the 80s, I can attest to how bad the policies were/are. They’re no success by any definition of the word.

Personally, I fully agree with the above points, and would like to see “someone” deal with it. Immigration and integration reform is necessary, IMNSHO.

In other words, given the above, a vote for SD sounds reasonable – doesn’t it?

Given that SD have not been given a chance to debate with the established parties, have not been given room in the nation’s largest news papers, and have been met with huge, loud, anti-SD crowds every time they try to hold a speech, it’s not so difficult to understand that your average Swede knows nothing about SD other than the official party line.

In other words, I’d like to think that the majority of the SD votes came from the same people who’ve always voted for them, but the votes that pushed them into government came from people who didn’t know any better.

All I know is that we now have two minority blocks in government, with the deciding party being completely new to the game.
And that hurts us all.

Avatar

Emma

September 20th, 2010 at 20:39

I agree with Erik, that’s about it. Some of you may be immigrants,white/brown, North American: the thing is, you don’t have our history. Read up all you want, you weren’t here in the suburbian 80s with all the skinheads and different Vit makt movements. We, the Swedes, have every right to be in shock – what the hell is to be expected?!
And let’s not forget that 90% of us voted for neither communists nor racists, so whatever the legitimate winner coalition decide to do will be to represent US.

Avatar

Sapphire

September 20th, 2010 at 21:55

@Kyr – I’m selfish because I demand more from my country? Are you saying we should not complain then? Live the lagom life that “well, we’re not the best, but we’re not the worst either.”

I demand the best from my government and my people, that is why I stand up for my viewpoints.

@gabriel – If SD pushed the entire political agenda to the right, that would be scary. And if media outlets spend their time either refusing to deal with SD or going extremely right, we are all in trouble.

That’s why it is up to us, each “Swede” to debate these issues. Immigrants are here, many are here to stay. Let’s get dialogues open and solve our problems. Blaming SD and name calling will not make the issue go away.

@Rylin- Exactly. Because SD is vilified and outcasted, no one knows their real party line. It also allows them to be a victim in politics. Shame on us then for letting them play the sheep.

@Emma – Are you saying that we (north americans, etc) don’t understand racism?

Why are you shocked? During World War II what did Sweden do to help the Jews or the persecuted? You turned a blind eye. You sided with the Nazis so they could invade Norway. Neutrality does not benefit the victims; it benefits the torturer. Sweden has a dark history, and it’s come out again.

“And let’s not forget that 90% of us voted for neither communists nor racists, so whatever the legitimate winner coalition decide to do will be to represent US.”
– I don’t understand this. The other 10% don’t have representation rights?

Avatar

Andrew

September 20th, 2010 at 22:33

All I keep seeing is people whining and complaining on Facebook about SD. There was a 5000 person gathering at Sergels Torg to protest SD getting in power. Well, unfortunately it’s too little to late and they are in parlement for the next 4 years, like it or not.

Ignoring them, not tolerating them, or trolling them is what they want you to do. They want the attention. What people should be doing is trying to figure out a way to stop them from spreading. Ignoring them now, who knows, next election they could jump to 10%! They doubled from 2006, it could happen again.

I have yet to have a Swede tell me how they would like to deal with SD in a positive fashion. There is more outrage and anger that they got in, yet a lack of critical and forward thinking. No one I’ve talked to has said “Ok, this is the hand we’re dealt for the next 4 years, so, how can we play it to further positive growth in society”.

For Swede’s who are “shocked”, if you opened your eyes to all the problems, you would have seen this coming a mile away. Government politicians have openly admitted the immigration policies have failed, yet haven’t done anything to address them. It’s like seeing a crack in a dam and putting a band-aid over it, yes that’s going to do a lot. If Sweden looked at Denmark 15 years ago, and addressed the problem then, thinks would have been a lot different now, but then hind-sight is always 20/20. When SD first became a threat in 2006, that should have been a blatant warning that things’s getting real… and yet, Swedes failed to stop SD.

Just be glad they are not part of the Tea Party movement or wanting to publicly burn Qur’ans to protest September 11th. Now THESE are dangerous movements as they are a complete threat to overthrow the Republican Party and cause some really serious damage, and not 5.7% damage.

Like it or not, Sweden, you’ve made your bed, now you can sleep in it.

Avatar

Anonymous Swede

September 21st, 2010 at 16:33

@Sapphire. I’m not saying that we did everything right during the 2nd world war, but you are a bit off with your facts in this statement:

“Why are you shocked? During World War II what did Sweden do to help the Jews or the persecuted? You turned a blind eye. You sided with the Nazis so they could invade Norway. Neutrality does not benefit the victims; it benefits the torturer. Sweden has a dark history, and it’s come out again.”

You should probably google on Raoul Wallenberg, Folke Bernadotte, the white busses and how we also tried to help Finland but remain neutral.

Avatar

Kyr

September 21st, 2010 at 20:39

Yeah, Andrew is right, the shock and outrage and all that, it’s just in SD’s favour, they are getting attention and they like it.

One important factor is that now that they have a 5.7% vote, they will no longer be labelled as “extremists”.

Since they are no longer extremists, that means that a lot more people will support them now, why? Because a lot of people agree with SD, but they don’t want to label themselves as extremists, now they can join in the 5% group and still be normal people, sure, it doesn’t make much sense, but that’s how it works.

Avatar

Kyr

September 21st, 2010 at 20:55

I’d also like to point out one thing:

most people seem to believe that nationalistic and right-wing focused parties like SD, and the people that support them, simply do so due to a lack of education about reality or morals.

Well, that’s not the case, all SD supporters are just as educated and morally inclined as anyone else, why? because the media and high-school education system has made sure of that ever since ww2, and you can’t argue against that can you? when was the last time you heard about a right-wing history class, or a right-wing movie at the cinema?

The main motivator for support of nationalistic parties is a sense of duty to preserve a culture and race and not be invaded or dilluted by the rest of the world, such as american globalisation, islamic fundamentalism, it’s not much to ask for and most of the world embrance ethno-centric, seperatist views about their own country, or even expansionist views, so if a european country here and there want to limit the cultural and ethnic flow into their own country, why is it such a crime?
I’m not defending SD, I’m just confused.

Avatar

Jessica

September 21st, 2010 at 21:40

@ Kyr: You have my vote ;-) I couldn’t have put it better myself! As soon as someone is nationlistic or against the majority, they are ignorant, uneducated rednecks. And one more thing – what exactly did the Americans do in WW II?? I am really confused, together with the Canadians, they arrived when Germany was already on it’s knees and just pushed out the last pockets of resistance… And only after they were attacked at Pearl harbour; which is really frightening, because had that attack never happened, they may well have waited out the rest of the war and NEVER pitched in. Yet every American I meet here in Europe is very quick to tell me how America saved the day!

And another thing that pisses me off about this is that everybody is so proud of having a democracy that when people vote other than the majority (the majority voting left wing and a tiny monority votes right wing) then there is hell to pay. As long as everyone votes centre/ left wing then everyone shuts up and all is rosy. As soon as that is not the case then there is a global panic and everyone screams KKK – come on people, this is democracy – everyone has a right to vote for what they want!!

Avatar

Andrew

September 21st, 2010 at 23:56

@Jessica

Woah, what did Canada do in WW2?!?! Well, time for a history lesson.

I’m very proud that my countrymen and women served during world war 2. To hear that we arrived “when Germany was already on it’s knees” is rather ignorant on your part. If you think we arrived at D-Day (June 6, 1944) to help take back Juno Beach, well we were around a hell of a lot sooner before that.

Canada entered WW2 in September 10, 1939, over 2 years before the attack on Pearl Harbour (December 7, 1941). September 1, 1939 is the official “start date” of World War 2 when Germany invaded Poland, so we were very quick to come to the aid of Europe, mostly serving with British Battalions as our military was still not up to par after World War 1 and the Great Depression.

During the 6 years of Canada’s involvement in the war, 1.1 million Canadians served, 45,000 lost their lives and 54,000 were wounded. All while the population of Canada was between 11 and 12 million. That’s ~10% of our population sent to Europe to fight.

I could go on, but instead, please enlighten yourself as obviously you need to brush up on your history.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=history/secondwar
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=history/secondwar/canada2/normandy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada_during_the_Second_World_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_Beach

Avatar

Anonymous Swede

September 22nd, 2010 at 06:35

“what exactly did the Americans do in WW II?? I am really confused, together with the Canadians, they arrived when Germany was already on it’s knees and just pushed out the last pockets of resistance… And only after they were attacked at Pearl harbour; which is really frightening, because had that attack never happened, they may well have waited out the rest of the war and NEVER pitched in.”

To say that they didn’t pitch in before they grabbed their weapons isn’t right. The sent lots of supplies and vehicles to the Russian army, so that they would be able to continue fighting against the Germans. Helping out doesn’t always mean that you have to fight.

Avatar

Jessica

September 22nd, 2010 at 09:47

@ Anonymous Swede: Helping out doesn’t always mean that you have to fight.

Well, be that as it may, they could have helped stop the war a lot sooner and save thousands of lies by pitching in earlier. Europe asked them on several occasions to help out, and they didn’t. After they did help, they made Europe sign a paper saying that they would help America out in times of war which is why we have all ended up in Iraq.

Avatar

Dano

September 22nd, 2010 at 10:42

Ah Jess bless ya little heart.I’ve had this argument with the yanks for years,it gets violent and messy!
Hope you’re ready for the storm? lmao. I’ll be watching. ;)

Avatar

Jessica

September 22nd, 2010 at 10:49

@ Dano: hehe, I know – I have only met Yanks that have come to Holland on student exchange or something and they are really full of themselves. The latest was a yank from California who insisted that more yanks died than Europeans during the second world war. This had me momentarily speechless, but not as shocked as when she suddenly started dragging the Vietnam war into second world war arguments :-P When I reminded her that the second world war had nothing to do with the Vietnam war, she said, oh right… lol!!

Avatar

Andrew

September 22nd, 2010 at 11:59

@Jessica – I find it interesting you’ve backed off the Canadian WW2 aspect, yet still haven’t admitted you were wrong (or apologized). I guess ignorance is bliss.

Avatar

Jessica

September 22nd, 2010 at 13:55

@ Andrew: I have not apologized as I was not aware I had backed off the whole Canada/ ww2 thing as I was not wrong.

Avatar

Jessica

September 22nd, 2010 at 14:29

What I mean is – why should I apologise, or back off?

Avatar

Andrew

September 22nd, 2010 at 14:47

@Jessica – You are wrong. Canada didn’t arrived “when Germany was already on it’s knees”. Like I said, we joined the war 9 days after it started.

Avatar

Erik

September 22nd, 2010 at 16:24

@ Sapphire: Playing the WW2 card is really low. First of all, it wasn’t the will of Swedish people, it was the will of the Swedish King that decided on neutrality. During times of war you don’t really have a referendum on “being neutral or not”, you declare martial law. And back then, the King was in charge when that happened. And all his relatives were German.

A lot of Swedes helped out in Finland, Norway and in 2nd world war, it just wasn’t the official line by the Swedish king. And as the anon. Swede said “You should probably google on Raoul Wallenberg, Folke Bernadotte, the white busses and how we also tried to help Finland but remain neutral.”

I’m sorry, I’m usually an American friendly guy, but when someone takes up WW2 like this, it’s just irritating and plain stupid and just confirms the Americans lack of knowledge of the outside world.

As Jessica said, you were just as neutral as Sweden was until you got attacked at Pearl Harbor. And you were on the other side of the planet. So please, don’t pass any judgement on us. You sent supplies to Russia, we (as in the Swedish population, aka Sweden, not the Swedish government) sent to Finland and Norway.

And whilst WE are paying for “our mistake” when we turned a “blind eye” as you nicely put it (even though we took in thousands of Finns, Jews, Norwegians and Danes), you on the other hand start wars all over and then turn a blind eye to the refugees. Södertälje, a small town south of Stockholm, received more refugees from Iraq then the entire US did last year. Refugees from YOUR war and YOUR mess. If you start a war, bomb their homes you have to let the people stay with you, otherwise all you have achieved is a nation consisting of millions of homeless people starving to death. Isn’t that turning a blind eye?

I get tired of EVERY American talking about their greatness during the 2nd world war. It was 70 years ago. Get over it. I’m not seeing you thanking the French for handing you all your weapons during the American Revolution against the Brits. The Frenched helped you win your freedom and you helped France. Aren’t you equal now, or do you still feel like playing in the sandbox with all the other new nation trying to make your voices heard?

(And by the way Jessica, Andrew is right, during the 1st world war the Brits relied heavily upon their empire and during the 2nd world war they relied heavily upon the Brittish commonwealth, which included Canada by the time.)

Avatar

Jessica

September 22nd, 2010 at 18:07

@ Andrew and Erik:
Andrew, first and foremost, I want to offer my sincere apologies for having said what I did about the Canadians. I was not aware of that fact – I have since checked out what you said and it was right – I was wrong and I apologize. I do not apologize for what I said about the Americans though.

Thanks for pointing my mistake out to me – after all, we live and learn!

Avatar

Jessica

September 22nd, 2010 at 18:15

Andrew, just wanted to mention that you guys really did take a hammering during the second world war and the British flung you guys into the crappiest places, just like they did the Australians. You guys even fought in Groningen (where I study in The Netherlands) against the Dutch Nazi sympathisers…. So, once again – my apologies!

Avatar

Sapphire

September 22nd, 2010 at 19:43

@Erik – First of all, I never said American did great in WW2. Some other commentors said that or the likes of it. Second, America did a lot of terrible in WWII, including turning away ships harboring Jews and refugees and they eventually went to Canada and other countries. American companies, like most European companies, provided the German army with equipment (IBM, Ford, etc), so it makes us just as guilty as any other country who turned away refugees, “played neutral”, or provided services to the Nazis.

Third, you are passing a judgement on me that I’m some idiot of understanding the outside world. Shall I call you ignorant as well since you say “EVERY American…”?

Forth, this conversation is about Sweden and Sweden’s history towards immigrants and its own citizens. America’s history with wars is not the subject of this discussion. You can rant for a long time about this subject.

***
This topic is really about immigration issues in Sweden and other cultural issues in the country. While the debate about WWII is interesting, we need to get back on the subject of the post: SverigeDemokraterna. Do you want them, hate them, don’t care?
***

Avatar

Jessica

September 22nd, 2010 at 20:09

@ Sapphire, sorry for contributing to the hijacking of your topic!

As far as the SverigeDemokraterna go, they have every right to be there. I said this before in an earlier post, every time a party has one votes and it is not a left wing party, there is always trouble. That is not fair and it is not democratic.

Unfortunately, I am not Swedish, nor do I live there but I have been reading your blog for a bit and felt inclined to join in on this topic. I do not know anything about Swedish politics, but do they form a coalition wit other parties, or does Sweden just have one political party in power for a certain period of time?

Avatar

Andrew

September 22nd, 2010 at 20:22

@Jessica – Thanks. Normally I wouldn’t be so harsh about it, but it’s one of my sore spots about the history of Canada and WW2.

But going back to Sapphire’s original post, last I saw, the government was 1 seat away from majority. If that does happen, I wonder how they will treat SD.

It seams people have calmed down a bit (of course, initial reaction of hate when changes happen was expected), so who knows, level heads may prevail. This isn’t the end all, be all for Sweden. Just now LISTEN to what they have to say and who knows, a cruddy idea may become something grand in the end with the right nurturing and guidance. Just because you LISTEN and ACKNOWLEDGE them doesn’t mean you support them.

Sun Tzu said it best: “Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.”

Another question though; how did people react when V got in? They seem to be the polar opposite of SD. Was there angst and anger? Did people protest them? Or were they embraced and welcomed? Sweden is typically very socialist (to North American standards) country, so going a little more socialist in most eyes probably wasn’t a bad thing. But then I’m just speculating.

Avatar

Erik

September 22nd, 2010 at 21:02

@ Sapphire: Haha, I didn’t ever realize I wrote “every American”. Touché!

Anyhow, I have a hard time feeling hate for someone just cus of their believes. Although I strongly disagree with them. I don’t want them at all, but I cannot deny their existence and I do think people (not just politicians but the general public aswell) is handling the situation all wrong (from my point of view, a non SD supporter.) Even when the SD party got voted in to the Riksdag we STILL believe that Sweden is heaven on earth without any problems what so ever. This should be cause for a wakeup call so we can scrutinize what has “gone wrong” for people to vote as they did (I’m not saying their opinion is wrong, you have the right to form your own opinion. I do however think something is wrong with the previous politics if a party is formed that is based around one question; immigration.)

And the biggest question of them all is WHY people in small villages in southern Sweden is voting for a political party that doesn’t like immigrants, when they never come across immigrants in their daily life? And why in Skåne and not in Norrland?

And why is Rosengård in Malmö the worst ghetto in northern Europe whilst Rinkeby and Tensta only got 2% higher unemployment rate than the rest of Sweden and SD only got about 3% of the population here in Stockholm to vote for them. Are people scared of immigrants, do they have extreme prejudices, are they ignorant, do they feel like the big political parties have failed them in some way and they just vote in protest? Or do they just hate change?

Those are the question people and politicians should ask themselves, not rally up protest meetings that only causes the SD to become martyrs.

Avatar

Dano

September 22nd, 2010 at 22:31

Swedes are seeing what’s going on with the “immigrant problem” in the UK,USA,France etc..and know how many are flooding into Sweden now.They see/read about the immigrant riots in Rosengård and other places.They see how politically correct they have to be towards them.They see the explosion of immigrants everyday in their towns and cities..and they’re afraid for the future of Sweden!

With good cause in my opinion too! While i feel the SD is a bit TOO extreme,(the candidate stating “all immigrants should be shot between the eyes,bagged,stamped,and sent back to wherever they came from!” sounds a bit ..over zealous to me,lol) I also feel and understand why more people are voting for these parties here and around the world.
I also feel it’s mainly all aimed at the middle eastern immigrants,not all immigrants.

We all need to wake up and open our eyes to the ..ok i’ll say it..threat of Islam. If nobody else is willing to do anything about it..then parties like SD will gladly rise up and take on the task..and the ever growing number of votes!

Avatar

Abby

September 23rd, 2010 at 14:52

(Sapphire, I apologize in advance for this, but I cannot keep my mouth shut about WWII)

@Jessica you wrote, ‘And one more thing – what exactly did the Americans do in WW II?? I am really confused, together with the Canadians, they arrived when Germany was already on it’s knees and just pushed out the last pockets of resistance… And only after they were attacked at Pearl harbour; which is really frightening, because had that attack never happened, they may well have waited out the rest of the war and NEVER pitched in. Yet every American I meet here in Europe is very quick to tell me how America saved the day!’

What did America do? What did my grandfather do? He almost died, in Stalag Luft IV where he was taken prisoner after his B24 was shot down by German anti fire. He almost died walking across Nazi Germany and half way back again during the worst recorded winter in German history. He suffered from *severe* Post-Traumatic Stress disorder and a strange and rare skin disease that was contracted amongst POW that still affects him today at 90. Did he sign up before Pearl Harbor? No. He had responsibilities at home to take care, just like everyone else did and does. He signed up the next day after Pearl Harbor and never looked back, like most Americans. But that is not to say that there were not Americans fighting in the War before Pearl Harbor, there were. America as a government and as an entity was staying ‘neutral’ but still assisting (whether positively or negatively) in the backrooms. Quietly.

Before you open your mouth to blabber about what ‘America did’ during World War 2, you need to take a moment and sit back and think that there are lives still affected today. World War Two affects me. When you’re sitting in the hospital room watching your grandfather start to have flashbacks to POW camp and have to argue with him that the nurses are not German soldiers, but people try to help him. IT AFFECTS YOU. I would not exist if 1 little thing had gone differently for my grandfather. From, him not going on a practice flight in America before getting shipped out (his whole crew died except him, because fate had it so he wasn’t on the plane that night) to him realizing in his tiny nose turret that the only way he can get out is if someone from the outside lets him out. He rigged it so he could get himself out not just a couple of weeks before his plane was shot down. He would have died if he was the pilot of his plane, which is what he planning to originally be. His pilot was shot and killed by a German civilian, which was common when Allies were shot down in Nazi territory. He almost died on the Death March, which to this day is not given the attention it deserves, numerous times, whether being too weak and being shot by the army, dysentery, starvation, exhaustion, bombing, food poisoning, or even being ‘liberated’ by the Russian Army (many POWs didn’t return home after being liberated).

So what did this American man do? He did what he thought was right and honorable, defended his country and its allies from the enemy as best as he possibly could. He survived, and then when he came home he had to over come the extreme trauma that he suffered without any assistance from the government or anyone. Men of my grandfather’s generation were told to not talk about it. They were expected to keep it to themselves. He has *never* bragged about what happened in WWII. NEVER. For years and years and years he would not talk about it. It was not until the very early 1980s that he actually told his story. He refuses any recognition that he deserves, because he is so selfless and humble.

Yes. I’m very proud of my grandfather. He’s earned it. He didn’t go to war out of arrogance, he did it because he thought it was the right thing to do. He fought for what he thought was right and he fought for his life, my mother’s life, and my life, because if it wasn’t for his sacrifice, his determination, resolve, and strength, I would not be writing this to you right now.

I’m not going to debate about this further, since this is not what Sapph wrote about. However, Jessica, you really need to understand that when you talk about WWII, though it happened 70 years ago, it is still something that has a direct and powerful affect on lives today. It is not a distant war in the past that we can talk about with a disconnect. So when discussing WWII, I suggest you tread very carefully, because you don’t know how your blasé, quick to judge, thoughtless comments affect people who are still very closely connected to something that happened 70 years ago.

And, finally, stop assuming all Americans are the same. We as a culture possess some similarities, but for the most part, regionally, we are quite diverse. And do you really expect 20 something college students to not be arrogant? Come on, it’s rare to meet anyone who doesn’t possess any arrogance in their late teens and 20s.

[Dano, was this what you were expecting?]

Avatar

Erik

September 23rd, 2010 at 15:58

@ Abby: A lot of Americans did help, die and in many cases saved us, and what your grandfather did was heroic, no one has ever questioned one mans courage. But you must understand that man Europeans get a bit tired when we hear the “we saved you, now be grateful” 70 years later. When more than 60 million people died in Europe. And 25 million of those were soldiers just like your grandfather.

@ Dano: Islam threat? What is an Islam threat? What are you scared of? That there is 1,5 billion terrorists walking around on planet Earth ready to blow people up? Even you must see that it’s not a very logical way of thinking.

When people are poor and desperate they are easy to control and use. That goes for many of the people in the Middle East aswell as the kids to be trained as soldiers in Africa or the Christian sect members in the US committing mass-suicide.

What place and what reality do you live in? White suburbia, 1951?

The normal “muslim-refugee” have no intention of blowing people up or harming any one, they just want a safe place to live and raise their family. Segregation (like you are doing with that comment) is the problem, not someones religious beliefs. Now you are the ignorant one.

Avatar

Dano

September 23rd, 2010 at 16:49

@Abby – No hun it wasn’t what i was expecting exactly.It’s rare Americans go in for the personal touch.Usually it’s an angered blast of patriotic fervour,followed by the American taught version of “the facts”! (many of which are totally wrong and BS!)
Anyone who has little interest in a subject only knows/learns a small piece of the whole.When an argument arises,they spout the little they know,which is generally wrong and full of assumptions and generalizations.This what Jessica has done.It’s also what 95% of Americans do too.
She apologised,let it go.

@Erik – Terrorists read and live by the Koran.Every other Muslim reads and lives by the Koran.
The Koran states that ANYONE who is an unbeliever is to be killed! (similar thing as what Hitler thought about non-Aryans).
Now..if the crap hits the fan..which one day it will..the mad mullahs are going to say..”Inshallah! Kill all the unbelievers! Allahu akbar!”…and anyone who wants to stay a muslim,and live,is going to have to follow! Whether they want to or not!
They ALL believe the same thing.If they are true muslims then they want us dead..simple!
The main purpose of their immigration policy is to get enough people in each country to be able to demand their own laws…Sharia law!
It’s not a nice law trust me. It’s happening in the UK and Europe right now! It’s starting to raise it’s head in America.How long before a country like Sweden and it’s 9 million swedes become a “minority”?
Learn Arabic.Sneak into a mosque.Listen to what their Imams tell them all the time.You’ll be shocked friend.

Avatar

Abby

September 23rd, 2010 at 18:42

Erik- That was basically my point, is that ignorant comments from both ends of the spectrum are nothing more than ignorance which is frustrating for either end. To try and say country did more than another when fighting something together is just pointless, every country sacrificed and suffered. :)

Dano- I was kidding with you since I knew that was what you were expecting. :) and I’m American, she only apologized for incorrect facts about Canada.

Avatar

Jessica

September 23rd, 2010 at 20:37

@ Abby: yes, I only apologized for what I had said about the Canadians. But the students that come here may be young (and some of them not so young, there are Americans here, working, that are 30+) and they are just parroting what they have been taught at school, not just because they are teenagers and arrogant. So, yes – I get pissed off with the America saved the day routine. I am sorry of you got insulted because of your history, or rather your grandfathers, that is what you get for generalisations. I never had shell shocked uncles, but every one of my uncles and both my grandfathers fought in the war – Americas help was needed and too little given too late. But I will not apologize.

And what Dano says is true – if you think the only Muslims are here are the ones that just want to raise their families in peace – then you are living with your head up your bum. get out there and talk to muslims, realyl talk and listen to what they say. I know muslims – also have muslim friends and they are great people. There are however, many other muslims that are here and hate us. they think we should die because we are unbelievers. There is a real threat that Europeans become a minority int heir own country and largely due to the fact that they give their own country away by acceding to every wish of the muslims. They let them byuils mosques and have schools that only teach in Arabic – in Rotterdam today more than 50% of the population is not even Dutch. Look at documantaries that the BBC have made on mosques in London – open your eyes!

I am not trying to hate monger here, I am just saying that people mustn’t be quick to tell other people to shut up because it is not PC….

Avatar

Erik

September 24th, 2010 at 12:53

@ Jessica and Abby: In Stockholm, 40% of the population doesn’t have Swedish ancestry, and I think we are doing pretty well here.

And as I stated: “The normal “muslim-refugee” have no intention of blowing people up or harming any one”. There are of course extremists, as there are in any religion and they should be fought by all means, but to say that 1,5 BILLION people wants to blow people up are a bit extreme.

And yes, I get out and talk to Muslims since I have friends that are Muslims and I have been to a Mosque several times (and no, I’m not a Muslim, I don’t believe in God) and many of them doesn’t agree with our way of life, but they don’t want to kill us. Here in Stockholm they will even start to build a combined mosque and church in the same building, and I don’t think that will cause any riots.

And just cus the Koran says you are to kill all non believers, I have a hard time seeing that every Muslim will/want to go out on a killing spree. The Christian bible states that it’s forbidden to eat shrimps, cus God hates them for some reason. Do people eat shrimps anyways? Yes they do. And not eating shrimps is a pretty small measure to take if you want to get into heaven. Killing 50 people is not.

As I stated before and apparently have to repeat again: when people are poor and desperate they are easy to control and use. What religion started the crusades a thousand years ago? Was it the, by that time, the poor and uneducated Christians in Europe that was easy to control by the Pope, or the educated Muslims that could think by them selves?

What I’m trying to say with that is not what religion it is you believe in that matters, it’s how educated and enlightened you are. And yes, there will always be people that refuses to learn and adapt, but that doesn’t mean we should stop trying. That would be foolish since it doesn’t really solve any problems. We cannot build a electric fence around the Middle East and say “Well, let them fight, it’s not our problem. Let’s go in and clean up the mess when they’re done.”

If I see an old lady trip and fall in the street I can walk past her and think “Weeell, she looks to be in trouble but someone else will help her. Maybe she is super senile and aggressive and will attack or scream at me. I’ll just let someone else handle it” OR “hey, there’s an old lady in the street maybe I should help her. She might be senile and aggressive but she still deserves my help”.

The only difference is that the immigrants are from another war torn country and probably have been fed with the information that we are “the bad guys” and the old lady has probably lived in safety all her life.

Just out of curiosity, what countries do you live in that have this immense fear of terrorists? :)

Avatar

Dano

September 24th, 2010 at 19:47

I live in Sweden,but am English.
Jessica lives in Holland,but is South African.
Abby i’m assuming lives in the USA and is American.

Anyone one who doesn’t have a fear of terrorists is a fool! 3000 people had no fear of terrorists when they went to work 9/11/01.
Most died probably still having no clue what was going on!
You seem to think i’m over reacting and scaremongering? That’s fine,because i think you resemble a Jew in 1930’s Germany who thinks his German neighbours turning on him is totally unbelievable!

Islam..the religion of peace!
Here’s a little something you should watch to the end.It may wake you up a bit,who knows?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M32M-2B2mz8

Avatar

Erik

September 24th, 2010 at 22:50

@Dano: Yes, it woke me up a bit. People like you are so scared of terrorists that they search for “Kuwait Professor Anthrax” on the Internet and take that as valid source for a crusade. Please, don’t take me for a fool. How many people in the western world don’t want to kill “them damn jihad people”. We are fighting a war over that for Gods sake, and to think every soldier goes in to that war with the mission of “liberating the Middle East” is both naive and stupid. (I’m not saying there aren’t people that think like that, they are probably the majority, but there are still people there who just want to eradicate the “Muslim threat” on the planet.)

Last year 15 000 people were murdered in the US by other US citizens. What about that? I don’t see American citizens cowering in fear for their neighbors or start shooting at random people cus they “might” be murderers. Fear is a terrorists greatest weapon, and your falling for it like mouse in a mousetrap. Quite amusing to see really. And even if they were scared of terrorists during 9/11, what then? You think they would have stayed home instead of going to work?

I still don’t deny terrorists exist. But YOU however are sounding a lot like a Muslim Mullah in Iran, “they want us dead so let’s kill them first!”.

Still you haven’t come up with any valid argument, explanation or excuse for your behavior (and please, do not refer to 9/11 or the London bombings. Then an Iraqi citizen could just say the thousands of cluster bombs dropped on Baghdad). Have you ever come across a terrorist? Have you ever spoken to a terrorist? Have you ever been hurt by a terrorist?

You have to see it from their point of view aswell. If your home got bombed by a nation called America/UK/whatever country, and you have never heard of it before, and then a “man of God” comes and says “Hey, they are the bad guys, God told me that and see what they did to your house! And that’s what the Koran says aswell. I know you can’t read but let me read it for you!”. How would you react when you just lost everything? (I’m not passing judgement on the US for doing what they did, they had their reasons, I just think that both sides need to think before they act, not act out of fear like you are now, it’s not rational).

Being hit by a car when I cross the road is more likely then get killed by a terrorist, and still I cross rodes every single day without being terrified of death. Maybe I should be, but then life wouldn’t be worth living.

Avatar

DeepSoul

September 25th, 2010 at 03:25

Hey y’all! The Yank is back!! ;)

This is a very interesting debate. I heard about elections and there certainly was quite a heated uproar!

First and foremost, let us remember that millions of people have died in many wars. We are all human. It doesn’t matter which race, gender or religion you are. War is just horrible in every manner. It is unfortunate that history can repeat itself. Hopefully mankind can let go of the burden of hatred. Idealistic, I know.

I will say something which is only my opinion. While I respect different cultures and religions, I find it only right to assimilate to the country you immigrate to. I believe it is a matter of respect and upholding the traditions and values of that nation. I am sure that everybody here can agree in equality and rights of all people. However, if I was to move to another nation, I would most certainly learn the language, laws, and culture in general. Every country has it’s unique and rich history. I think it is important to preserve it.

As an American, let me just say that I am NOT ethnocentric. I love my nation, but I am sensing a lot of anti-American sentiment and hostility. People are people, no matter where you go in this world. I do not consider hatred and ignorance bliss.

America is a nation of immigrants. The indigenous people on many reservations (sovereign nations)have had to work hard to preserve their heritage. How unfortunate that those who immigrated on their lands made them assimilate. That is a long and diversified story!

Anyway, I hope the best outcome for Sweden and it’s citizens. Peace all. :)

Avatar

Jessica

September 25th, 2010 at 07:29

@ Deepsoul: I certainly agree with you there! If you move to another country you have a duty to that country to uphold their laws and customs, if out of nothing more than respect to that country for taking you in. Just want to be clear on something – I do not hate Americans, they just frustrate me sometimes ;-)

@ Erik: I think you have misunderstood me. I am not scared of terrorists. I am scared of people like you that jump down my throat when I say we should be cautious about immigrants (not terrorists) because a lot of them view us as weak because we do not have the same values as them and we just roll over and do whatever they want when they demand new mosques or whatever. Europe lacks the balls to stand up to them and that is why they despise us, not just because they have another religion. Here in Holland there is no way you can have a church built, but if you want a mosque built you can get a damned subsidy! In Holland there are a lot of Turkish and Moroccan immigrants who have been living here for years (their grandparents came over in the 1970’s) so they are third generation immigrants – and some can hardly speak Dutch! This is where parties like the SD and the PVV Geert Wilders’ party in Holland)come in, they can also accommodate people that are worried about their country.
And just out of curiosity – how many terrorists have you spoken to? Should be interesting because people do not know a terrorist until they have blown up the bus!

Avatar

Erik

September 25th, 2010 at 09:46

@Jessica: You just recited the failure in Dutch politics, I have no idea of how your country looks like or how permits for church building is handled there. And if people that have lived there for 3 generation still doesn’t speak dutch, that’s a major failure on your part. (I DID however read about some mosques in Holland that gave all their sermons in Dutch since the Muslim population in that area didn’t speak Arabic anymore, don’t know if that’s common? But maybe you have been to mosques so you can tell me?)

Most of the immigrants in Sweden are put in class to learn Swedish to easier integrate (not assimilate, that’s not the same thing, if you assimilate you loose your personality). Of course there are immigrants here that doesn’t speak Swedish, but they are mostly old men and women that have come here just recently and see no point in learning. And since we got mandatory school in Sweden that’s funded with tax money all kids learn Swedish here at a young age.

So that’s not why people vote for SD in Sweden, it’s cus people don’t know, many of them probably haven’t even read their party platform. How can you know if you live out in a village on the countryside and have never come across an immigrant in your entire life? The only time you do come across them are when you watch the “bad news” about them on TV. It wasn’t in the big cities the support for them were at their greatest, it was in the small villages. And it was among the low educated, low income young men they had their biggest support, and that can’t be questioned. And young, low educated, low income men are known for making rash decision based on current emotion, not fact.

And no, I have no idea if I’ve spoken to a terrorist or not, that’s why I have no irrational fear of them. I recognize them as a threat, but I wont stop living my life cus of them. The day I get blown to pieces, I will probably cower in the fear for the rest of my life. But until that day come, I will not.

And if I scare you, I do really feel sorry for you. Do you classify me as a security threat? You sound more like a machine than a human, good luck loosing your humanity!

Avatar

Jessica

September 25th, 2010 at 13:00

Erik, you scare me because you misunderstand me and continue to do so. I haven’t lost my humanity – you don’t know me, don’t even presume to think you do! I am just saying that I can understand why people vote for those parties. That was the point to my ‘rant’. The immigrants here are also put in free classes to learn Dutch – the ones that don’t hate the fact that they are required to do so by law, as the old laws failed (in the 1970’s).

I think it is a very good idea for people to integrate into society – I do not feel there is ANY need to assimilate, everyone has their identity. What happens when all the immigrants come into a foreign country we assimilate to their ways and I think that is wrong. Case in point: when Geert Wilders was INVITed to England to talk about his film he had made, the imams threatened to call their people to riot on the streets of London. English politicians denied him access to England, Geert Wilders became a persona non grata and was not even allowed off the plane.

I have spoken to many foreigners (people from iran, iraq etc) here in Holland and they really do not want to learn Dutch (again this is the majority) they hate the fact that they are forced to by Dutch law. They just want to pick up their lives and carry on where they left off after fleeing their own country. That I find a shame, because they are the ones that really spoil it for the rest of the immigrants that come here willing to learn. It is a very sad fact that Dutch politics failed in the past, but they have tried to rectify the matter and it still doesn’t seem to be working. It is just very easy to say what needs to be fixed but it is very difficult to actually get done.

How do you know who has voted for the SD by the way? I know that people who had voted for the PVV In Holland were people that lived in the cities populated by many immigrants because there is a lot of trouble with them here. But there were also people that voted for them that lived in areas with less immigrants. I am looking forward to coming to Sweden so I can see for myself how things are going there.

Avatar

Dar

September 25th, 2010 at 13:18

I am Canadian but travelled to Malmo 17 years ago. It was probably one of the quietest cities I had ever travelled to. Not anymore. Why? because of white supremacists? If that was the case, the muslims would not have been welcome there at all. It is because of the radicalism that is Islam. I am of Swedish ancestry, yet hear less back room talk about racism from my white friends, as compared to my muslim coworkers. I hear more talk of how ‘good islam is’, how the white women are out of control, how evil the americans are. The muslims here in Canada believe most Canadians actually hate Americans! That is like New Zealand hating Australia! Nothing could be further from the truth. Canada and the USA, although very different, rely on each other for trade and resources. England is still very much regarded as the Mother of Canada (except by the younger generation and immigrants). I honestly believe the SD will become stronger or will evolve into a softer more acceptable political party, with the same agenda. I believe the SD was not born out of hate or ex skinheads, but out of necessity because of the Muslim uprising. Is it attracting skinheads and white nationalists? Yes of course.

And off topic, but back to WW2, every year in Canada we gather for ‘Battle of the Atlantic Sunday’ Sept 3 1939 – May 1945, where we remember all of the CIVILIAN sailors who were torpedoed by German subs, carrying food and supplies to Britons who were starving. Even neutral countries such as Sweden found that it was safer for their ships to sail with the Allied Merchant Navy rather than on their own.

http://merchantships.tripod.com/merchantseamentribute.html

Avatar

Dano

September 25th, 2010 at 23:38

@Erik –
1/ I don’t search the net for that stuff.It was on another forum i go to,populated mainly by Americans.I just thought it showed how they preach their “religion of peace”.
The American view on that forum is to just turn the middle east into the worlds biggest piece of glass! (the reaction from extreme heat and sand..nuclear strikes etc!) And they could!

2/”No valid reason or excuse for my behaviour”?..I started by stating my opinions on why the SD got 5.7% of the votes here last week. Votes that you seem to KNOW came from old folks and young folk with low intelligence in villages.I thought voting was an intensely personal affair..did they all phone you up to tell you how they voted? How can you know? You’re full of it!

3/ After 11 years in the military,3 tours of Northern Ireland and driving home from work passing a parked truck that 12 minutes later exploded and devastated my home city of Manchester..yes i’ve come across terrorists! Yes i’ve spoken to terrorists! Yes i’ve been hurt when my friends were shot dead or blown apart by terrorists!
Do i fear them? Lol..no!
Do i fear what they’re capable of?..Hell yes! Bombs don’t distinguish between opponents like me and supporters like you.

I have to take a trip for a few days.Have fun all and cya soon!

Avatar

Jessica

September 28th, 2010 at 14:43

Hey Dano – have a safe trip! Look forward to reading your views on love, terrorism and all the rest on this blog when you get back ;-)

Avatar

Dano

September 28th, 2010 at 21:54

Thanks hun,but trip was cancelled until next week lol. :)

Avatar

Jessica

September 28th, 2010 at 22:40

Oh goodie – another week filled with your banter :-D Already read something about your loins, you never disappoint :-P

Avatar

Dano

September 28th, 2010 at 23:35

It’s been a while since a girl said my loins never disappoint! thanks. :D

Avatar

Jessica

September 29th, 2010 at 16:02

ROFL!!! Cheeky bugger!

Avatar

a Swede

September 29th, 2010 at 20:45

Erik stop being so full of shit please. The nazi’s hate Sverigedemokraterna becuase they got alot of jewish people among them. They are counted as worser traitors than the communists…

I don’t know where you grew up but already in third grade we stoped singing our national anthem and raising our flag in Norrtälje (early 90s) becuase it offended the immigrants.

Freedom of religion exists without building mosques. Who said muslims can’t pray in their homes? Freedom of religion doesn’t say that they can build what they want, whenever they want.

Ofcourse alot of them want Sweden to adopt to their way off life. Search on sharialagar i Sverige and read the hits… Never read it in the commie media aye?

We even got people that might have been elected that officialy demands it. I know atleast two, one in Centern and one that did candidate for Moderaterna in Gothenburg.

Take your bullcrap and show it up yer arsse dude.

Avatar

G. R.R.

October 10th, 2010 at 03:43

Wow. Equating a nation trying to control illegal immigration to others who are openly racists is amazing to me. While there are more than I care to see, I would say that far less than 1/4 of those in the USA opposed to illegal immigration, are racists. For myself, I am opposed to it, because I am at ground zero on this. I have witnessed the change of tax paying companies/jobs in housing to a massive increase of sub-contractors which are simply fronts for illegals. How much taxes are paid out of these? Little to none. How many benefits are taken? Amazingly,a LOT. I know for a fact. I have one friend in winter park that owns a construction company. Because he is cuban, every illegal assumes that he does not take out taxes. They were shocked when he did. Then several tried to get him to sign off on being able to get state medical assistance for their kids. What was a amazing is that he offered these men insurance. NONE OF THEM TOOK IT. Another guy from westminster CO, had a construction company. He lost it because he insisted on legals only. His other friends with companies told him that they were employing illegals and he should as well. Otherwise, he would not able to compete. And that was the case. In one other case, a close friend hired an investigator to research his brother-in-law. The guy was getting divorced because his American wife, found out about his Mexican wife. Ok. Not a problem. The divorce looked easy. However the guy was claiming under 70K/year. Turned out upon inspection, he was doing close to 1million/year in PROFIT. He was employing only guys from his Mexican village that were here illegally. In addition, he had been pumping that money out of the states, back to Mexico. This was not money that is easily tracked.
But to make matters more interesting, is that if leave western USA, and go east, it is NOT hispanics that are the issues. It is ppl from Poland, Russia, Slovekia, Africa, Asia, etc. that are the dominant group of illegals. And those of us opposed to ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, are equally opposed to this group as well. Why? BECAUSE they are here illegally.
I will say that while I am opposed to the total amnesty that dems push, I am for limited amnesty. If somebody was BROUGHT here as a child and the child has been in our school system for 5 years or more, OR they were brought here against their will (slave, etc), then they should be offered amnesty. Likewise, if somebody has an expired work visa and stayed out of trouble, paid all of their taxes, etc, then they should also be granted amnesty. For all else, send them home.

And SD is NOTHING like this. They have totally different goals. They are concerned about stopping Muslims. They are concerned about stopping immigrants that do not look or act like themselves. That is racism.

Avatar

Björn

October 14th, 2010 at 22:14

Havent been here in a while. But I can tell you that SD is a good thing. Immigration in sweden has gone too far. The requirements to become a swedish citizen are too soft. I’ve worked with many immigrants that had swedish citizenships and for example their ability to speak and understand swedish was just horrible. I could hardly understand what they said and they could hardly understand what I said. In sweden today, it is more about the swedish society adapting to the immigrants rather than the other way around. And media fully supporting that idea and anything else is considered “racist” by anyone too stupid and ignorant to actually look at the big picture.

SD wants to change that, in fact I beleive most people want that to change but only SD has the balls to actually go out and say out loud that things need to change. SD is not about racism, SD is about drawing a line somewhere. Specifically, if you want to move to sweden, learn the damn language, and take some goddamn responsibility by making an effort to adapt to the society in your new country and the ways things are done here.

I fully support SD and I am not a racist, in fact I have many immigrant friends who also fully understands the situation and support SD. I also have immigrant friends who does not like SD at all, the main difference between the two is that those who support SD can speak swedish fluently and have adapted to swedish soceity, those who does not support SD have not.

Bottom line is, the way immigration is handled in sweden is completeley screwed up. And it needs to change, and no other party than SD would even consider bringing it up. That is why they got so many votes.

Avatar

DeepSoul

October 14th, 2010 at 23:34

Hiya Bjorn!! Long time!!

Avatar

Jessica

October 15th, 2010 at 10:08

Bjorn and GRR for president! Bjorn, sorry for not spelling your name correctly, but I have a silly laptop and do not know how to put those fancy dots on the ‘o’ in your name.

Seriously though, between the two of you, you have hit the nail on the head. I immigrated to Holland from South Africa 16 years ago; not as a refugee, my mom is Dutch, but because the situation in SA became intolerable. In the beginning there was some hostility towards my family because they thought we were just MORE foreigners. But we learned to speak Dutch (fluently), went to school and got jobs etc. At this point we sometimes know more about Dutch history and culture than the Dutch themselves ;-) There has not been any hostility towards me or my family in years. There is however towards people that have been here for 20 years and still sound like they arrived in Holland yesterday.

I also see that a lot in Holland, that the Dutch have to adapt to the foreigners way of life. For a couple of years there were also complaints about some Dutch holidays and how they were ‘racist’ and should be stopped. This is disgraceful. Although I have quite a few things that I really cannot stand the Dutch about (see my rant under the topic of 10 things I hate about Sweden – yes, I hijacked that post!) I am still grateful that I was able to come here and get a good education etc. I feel, as a foreigner, that you owe it to the country that takes you in. If you are willing to accept the handouts the country is giving you (good healthcare, social benefits etc) then you owe them the courtesy of respecting their customs and at the least, learning the darned language!

Avatar

Nysvensk

October 21st, 2010 at 19:55

The Sweden Democrats’ popularity can be seen as a backlash against the hegemony of leftist dogmas. The left in Sweden claims to be in favour of diversity yet they openly seek to surpress any opinion that disagrees with theirs. The left in Sweden claims to be against exclusion yet they openly seek to exclude democratically elected representatives from the taking part in the parlementary process. The left in Sweden claims to oppose fascism, yet they smsh up other people’s meetings, attack opposing political candidates in the street and have solely been responsible for the rise of the brown-shirt mentality in the Swedish political sphere. Really, with a political left like this, who needs an extream right at all?

Avatar

Björn

October 22nd, 2010 at 01:40

@DeepSoul

Long time indeed! how ya doing? Did you find a swede yet? hehe

I kinnda suck at writing stuff so a “how ya doing” will have to suffice=P

@Sapphire

Sorry for hijacking the thread^^

Avatar

DeepSoul

October 23rd, 2010 at 04:27

@Bjorn…Just remember..Gogo Yubari!! Do I need to say more?? :X HAHA If you forgot…the ball and chain shall remind you!! How you doin’?

Avatar

Smelling Pickled Herring in the Wikileaks Arrest

December 7th, 2010 at 22:24

[…] idiotic garbage like #twetot and #lemmeguess is at the top at 16.21 EST. Conspiracy, coincidence, Sveriges Demokraterna’s racism against Australians? We do not know, but we have responsibility to find the […]

Avatar

Anna

December 28th, 2010 at 16:33

Despite the fact that I am not 100% Swedish (half Swedish and half Colombian). I do consider that SD has a point. I currently live in Colombia and if my hard earned tax money would be spend on giving food and a roof top to people who have not worked or paid taxes in my country that would be completely irresponsible and a violation of my rights. I want that money to go into my country’s roads, hospitals, schools, the government and general infrastruccture. Furthermore there are plenty of Swedes who do not have a home and who have a very difficult time finding jobs themselves. My sister who is a Handels graduate could not find a job in two years!! She would attend Karolinska as a guinnea pig so as to receive enough money to buy food. I have friends who have college degrees and cannot find a job in Sweden. Also living in Colombia and once in a while visiting Sweden, I have spotted many leading “guerrilleros” are not only given political asylum in Sweden but Swedish citizenship (Real evidence and sources to this cannot be handed because these people change names and identities once they arrive to Sweden and handing out information on the web would cost my life). In other words, members of leftist terrorist organisations are given leeway to live out of Swedish state funds and conduct their terrorist activities uniting with other leftist and islamic terrorist organisations. http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/sverige-medlade-med-farc-gerillan-1.1224872
I am not against immigration in Sweden but as a Colombian I find it to be a huge insult that Swedes meddle in our political affairs and help terrorist groups that have caused a lot of pain and suffering to my people. I feel sorry for the average Swede who has absolutely no clue that a small percentage of the immigrants in their country are not innocent victims of political instability but are actually the actors and main promoters of that said instability.
Secondly, Swedish people have a right to control the amount of immigrants entering their country. 500 years ago, Colombia had an indigenous population with its own customs and culture, when the Spanish arrived (and the majority of the indigenous population died out of smallpox or other diseases brought by the Spaniards) they became a minority and as a minority they had less say. Now 95% of the country is Catholic, spanish speaking and completely westernized. Do swedes want to allow the Islamic population to dominate and integrate a theocratic type government in their country? This is a valid question when it comes to how many people the Swedish government should allow to enter their country. The majority rules and what if a strong Islamic party is formed and takes over 40% of the Riksdan (I know people whine about the 5.6% that the Sverige Demokrater have) Do I want to walk around with a fucking burka on my head? No! Just as the indigenous people had a right to conserve their culture, so do Swedes. Nowadays, when I walk around in Florida or in Southern Texas, I really do not need to learn English because everything can be done in Spanish. Should other languages replace the Swedish tongue?
I admire Swedes, for their openmindedness, their willingness to do things the right way and their complete aversion of racism of any kind but the problem Swedes are facing nowadays is not that they are not generous enough or “modern” enough with their openmindedness. The problem is that many of the people that enter the country are not as openminded and respectful. There is a reason why things do not work out in their respective countries, there is a reason violence is a constant vicious cycle that can only be solved if their societies learn to work through those issues. The solution to those issues is not to let them live off the swedish government and they do not appreciate that charitable nature because in a subconscious way we tell them “See how nice we are? How rich? We are Swedes a better much more developed culture! Follow our example!” This generates resentfulness and a greater aversion towards the Swedish way. I suppose that this is what the SD refers to when they say that culture clashes generate conflict.
I hope that my bicultural experience is of any use for anyone here. I am still living in Colombia and I am working here to improve the safety, economic and moral development of my own country so that hopefully poor illiterate Colombians do not need to seek asylum in Sweden but can live not so illiterate or poor in their own culture and their home.

Avatar

Claudia

February 1st, 2011 at 18:18

…Just a pleasant reminder…..America was settled by Europeans. Full stop. End of story.

Avatar

Anna

February 21st, 2011 at 16:01

Yes, America was settled by Europeans but before them there was an indigenous population that is in the verge of extinction. The Swedish culture (including people of color who have adopted the culture with grace) consists of 7 million people. Islam dominates 1,2 billion people. There has to be a control as to how many people from Islamic countries enter Sweden. Swedes have a right to defend their culture and the most peaceful manner of doing so is by not allowing too many muslim immigrants enter the country. We do not want to see Mosque burnings or the opposite church burnings and threats to politicians who do not wish to implement Shariah law alongside Constitutional law.

Avatar

Bran

August 6th, 2011 at 02:42

The Arizona law isn’t as big of deal as reported in the media (it’s a repeat of federal law). Honestly, do you think that any law enforcement person in AZ has the time to pull over “brown” people to harass them? 90% of the people in AZ are of Mexican heritage. The issue is that when a person commits a crime, the state can check them out.

Avatar

vetteswede

August 20th, 2011 at 21:30

The SD is the only party in Sweden that take a stand against anti-semtism. The party that needs to be done away with is the green miljöpartiet with their anti-semite leader. The mijöpartiet ar perverted idiots. How the hell can SD be affiliated with nazis when they celebrate the annual Holocoast Memorial and of course Israel´s anniversity.

Avatar

Steven Parker

May 14th, 2012 at 19:56

@ a Swede, “In Sweden you act like a swede or get the fark out of here. We can’t even raise our flag at our schools anymore on our nationalday becuase some immigrants might feel offended (that’s the reality).”

I have never in all my days seen anyone spell that word like that and question whether or not you are a troll who pretends to be a white trash Swede or are actually such and write the same verbal idiosyncracies (a word you won’t understand if you are a Swede) that you speak.
I don’t think it has anything to do with the immigrants, your not being able to raise the flag: I remember around the time when thousands of your (perhaps) countrymen died in the Tsunami that flags were raised everywhere half-mast. So, your nation uses any excuse possible to show how it is ashamed of itself when it comes to something typically Swedish and use the immigrants as an excuse to execute such (in)actions.

To the author of this web site, you might want to proof read your work as this sentence does not make sense: “Arizona supported checking anyone “suspicious of being legal in the United States,”

I saw the Sverige demokraterna in town once and thought they made good points. Why is it that when an immigrant commits a crime he called Bunnyman or such in the press? It’s easy for me to be biased; Britain was taken over long ago by Pakistan.

Comment Form

Top