Comments on: To Go Dutch or To Not Go Dutch… That is the Question http://lostinstockholm.com/2009/04/15/to-go-dutch-or-to-not-go-dutch-that-is-the-question/ Musings about Life in Socialist Sweden - Oh Yea, It's Awesome Thu, 09 Feb 2012 21:11:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Chrissy http://lostinstockholm.com/2009/04/15/to-go-dutch-or-to-not-go-dutch-that-is-the-question/#comment-57982 Chrissy Mon, 06 Jun 2011 16:51:35 +0000 http://lostinstockholm.com/?p=172#comment-57982 @Mr boomtastic Maybe she expects u to pay for most of the stuff because she's unemployed? Otherwise, if u had money for train tickets, but not the hotel, why didnt u invite her over to london and stay at yours? That would've been problem solved:) I generally don't approve of men "having" to pay for everything all the time, if were in a bar or club I'd let a guy buy me a drink, but then I would insist on getting the next drink, i just don't like to feel like i owe something to someone, though I am probably the least feminist person among my friends and aquaintances:) I just think chivalry can be demonstrated in other ways, without making the other person feel in debt:) @Mr boomtastic

Maybe she expects u to pay for most of the stuff because she’s unemployed? Otherwise, if u had money for train tickets, but not the hotel, why didnt u invite her over to london and stay at yours? That would’ve been problem solved:)

I generally don’t approve of men “having” to pay for everything all the time, if were in a bar or club I’d let a guy buy me a drink, but then I would insist on getting the next drink, i just don’t like to feel like i owe something to someone, though I am probably the least feminist person among my friends and aquaintances:) I just think chivalry can be demonstrated in other ways, without making the other person feel in debt:)

]]> By: Dano http://lostinstockholm.com/2009/04/15/to-go-dutch-or-to-not-go-dutch-that-is-the-question/#comment-57648 Dano Sun, 05 Jun 2011 01:16:10 +0000 http://lostinstockholm.com/?p=172#comment-57648 It's simple. Women begged for "equal rights"...fine, they got them. PAY HALF!!! It’s simple. Women begged for “equal rights”…fine, they got them. PAY HALF!!!

]]> By: Mr boomtastic http://lostinstockholm.com/2009/04/15/to-go-dutch-or-to-not-go-dutch-that-is-the-question/#comment-57409 Mr boomtastic Fri, 03 Jun 2011 19:16:32 +0000 http://lostinstockholm.com/?p=172#comment-57409 Well here is a little scenario, have been dating a girl for a month, and on the first date I paid for everything which was fine, and again on the second date. However on the third date I texted her, (perhaps not the best way to go about things), suggesting going 'dutch' she was quiet offended, I had even asked, but she did decided to do this and everything went fine. Only this week she said why don't you come from London and visit me in Manchester, (she is living back with her parents after losing her job as a lawyer) I said fine so I was prepared to book the train ticket, and when searching around the hotels I thought they were quiet pricy and I'm on a low income job, however I said would you mind going half on the hotel room with me so we can stay together and enjoy each others company. This again up set her, I enquired was it because you could not afford this, I was understanding due to her job situation and said maybe we could leave it another couple of weeks then I could pay, (at this point but was a little short on cash) The answer was a blank no, she was annoyed because I had even asked. I feel like I'm been taken to the dry cleaners with this girl, surely a man has a right to ask regarding going half at time, I release its not romantic but its a 21st century reality unless your a banker Well here is a little scenario, have been dating a girl for a month, and on the first date I paid for everything which was fine, and again on the second date. However on the third date I texted her, (perhaps not the best way to go about things), suggesting going ‘dutch’ she was quiet offended, I had even asked, but she did decided to do this and everything went fine.
Only this week she said why don’t you come from London and visit me in Manchester, (she is living back with her parents after losing her job as a lawyer) I said fine so I was prepared to book the train ticket, and when searching around the hotels I thought they were quiet pricy and I’m on a low income job, however I said would you mind going half on the hotel room with me so we can stay together and enjoy each others company. This again up set her, I enquired was it because you could not afford this, I was understanding due to her job situation and said maybe we could leave it another couple of weeks then I could pay, (at this point but was a little short on cash) The answer was a blank no, she was annoyed because I had even asked. I feel like I’m been taken to the dry cleaners with this girl, surely a man has a right to ask regarding going half at time, I release its not romantic but its a 21st century reality unless your a banker

]]> By: Mark http://lostinstockholm.com/2009/04/15/to-go-dutch-or-to-not-go-dutch-that-is-the-question/#comment-48346 Mark Wed, 30 Mar 2011 09:51:44 +0000 http://lostinstockholm.com/?p=172#comment-48346 Income inequality? Rubbish. It would make no sense for businesses in a capitalist country to hire men when they could hire only women and cut payroll costs by 24%. Yet they don't. Expecting men to pay more often if they have more money is ridiculous. Why would you go out to dinner if you were struggling financially? If I earn 75k and you earn 35k, what exactly is stopping you from paying your half of the dinner bill? Would a few dinners bankrupt you? It would be no different than if you ate dinner alone. You would still be paying your half. Would you eat-out if you couldn't afford to do so? Of course not. So why would you do it now just because you're on a date? Why not tell him, "Hey, I can't afford to eat-out all the time. Can we do something that doesn't cost money?" The 'whoever asks, pays' system is flawed. Women don't ask men out on first dates as often as men ask women out. Until that is equally balanced, that system is not in favor of men. It still allows women to get free meals because they were not willing to ask a man out. Don't expect 9-5 equality if you still expect chivalry from 5-9. Get used to this, ladies. This is only the beginning. Income inequality? Rubbish.

It would make no sense for businesses in a capitalist country to hire men when they could hire only women and cut payroll costs by 24%. Yet they don’t.

Expecting men to pay more often if they have more money is ridiculous. Why would you go out to dinner if you were struggling financially? If I earn 75k and you earn 35k, what exactly is stopping you from paying your half of the dinner bill? Would a few dinners bankrupt you? It would be no different than if you ate dinner alone. You would still be paying your half. Would you eat-out if you couldn’t afford to do so? Of course not. So why would you do it now just because you’re on a date? Why not tell him, “Hey, I can’t afford to eat-out all the time. Can we do something that doesn’t cost money?”

The ‘whoever asks, pays’ system is flawed. Women don’t ask men out on first dates as often as men ask women out. Until that is equally balanced, that system is not in favor of men. It still allows women to get free meals because they were not willing to ask a man out.

Don’t expect 9-5 equality if you still expect chivalry from 5-9. Get used to this, ladies. This is only the beginning.

]]> By: 42 Reasons Why Sweden is the Best Country http://lostinstockholm.com/2009/04/15/to-go-dutch-or-to-not-go-dutch-that-is-the-question/#comment-36784 42 Reasons Why Sweden is the Best Country Wed, 15 Dec 2010 12:30:48 +0000 http://lostinstockholm.com/?p=172#comment-36784 [...] You can go dutch on dates [...] [...] You can go dutch on dates [...]

]]> By: Jessica http://lostinstockholm.com/2009/04/15/to-go-dutch-or-to-not-go-dutch-that-is-the-question/#comment-23405 Jessica Sun, 19 Sep 2010 14:43:46 +0000 http://lostinstockholm.com/?p=172#comment-23405 I would just like to clarify something here about the term Dutch treat. I have no idea where it sprang from, but after living here in Holland for 16 years I have never been on a date (casual or otherwise) and was expected to pay by the guy. They have never asked me to pay and ofcurse there were times that I took a turn to pay. I don't expect the guy to pay all the time, and not due to being a feminist (which I most definitely am not)but just because I thought it would be nice to pay for them for a change. I also feel very uncomfortable and guilty if the guy pays all the time. In Holland, the Dutch are under the impression that there is such a thing as an American party where people have to bring drinks to a party or something. This is quite puzzling because all the parties I have been to in Holland have all been fully catered by the people throwing the party. They think this is how it happens in America... The Dutch, however, seem to be rapidly approaching the Scandinavian stage where the woman are very equal to the men and the woman will insist on paying her share. I think this is a shame as it really does mess up the difference between men and women and then you need blogs to help us out when we go out with the opposite sex on a date! A English term for val (sorry do not know how to do the fancy dot on the 'a'as I do not have a Swedish keyboard) could possibly be a damsel in distress. Women that sit around waiting to be helped out by men constantly... Not sure if others agree, but that is the closest I can come up with. I would just like to clarify something here about the term Dutch treat. I have no idea where it sprang from, but after living here in Holland for 16 years I have never been on a date (casual or otherwise) and was expected to pay by the guy. They have never asked me to pay and ofcurse there were times that I took a turn to pay. I don’t expect the guy to pay all the time, and not due to being a feminist (which I most definitely am not)but just because I thought it would be nice to pay for them for a change. I also feel very uncomfortable and guilty if the guy pays all the time. In Holland, the Dutch are under the impression that there is such a thing as an American party where people have to bring drinks to a party or something. This is quite puzzling because all the parties I have been to in Holland have all been fully catered by the people throwing the party. They think this is how it happens in America…

The Dutch, however, seem to be rapidly approaching the Scandinavian stage where the woman are very equal to the men and the woman will insist on paying her share. I think this is a shame as it really does mess up the difference between men and women and then you need blogs to help us out when we go out with the opposite sex on a date!

A English term for val (sorry do not know how to do the fancy dot on the ‘a’as I do not have a Swedish keyboard) could possibly be a damsel in distress. Women that sit around waiting to be helped out by men constantly… Not sure if others agree, but that is the closest I can come up with.

]]> By: The A to Z Guide on Dating Swedish Men http://lostinstockholm.com/2009/04/15/to-go-dutch-or-to-not-go-dutch-that-is-the-question/#comment-10145 The A to Z Guide on Dating Swedish Men Tue, 23 Mar 2010 10:50:38 +0000 http://lostinstockholm.com/?p=172#comment-10145 [...] Confusing; few understand the male species and even less understand the Swedish man D – Dutch dates are possible, especially if in Sweden. E – Equal opportunity. Hold that door for yourself. F [...] [...] Confusing; few understand the male species and even less understand the Swedish man D – Dutch dates are possible, especially if in Sweden. E – Equal opportunity. Hold that door for yourself. F [...]

]]> By: Sapphire http://lostinstockholm.com/2009/04/15/to-go-dutch-or-to-not-go-dutch-that-is-the-question/#comment-1911 Sapphire Tue, 12 May 2009 16:29:13 +0000 http://lostinstockholm.com/?p=172#comment-1911 @Pontus- Thanks for your input. I cannot think of an equivalent to våp but those kinds of girls definitely exist everywhere. And I agree, if someone invites you out for dinner, that person should pay. But at the same time, if you happen to be a girl, it is okay to ask a men out to dinner and for the GIRL to pay. @Ingela- Yea, I was not too clear on defining it on Twitter but I'm happy with everyone's input. I agree with the point that the person who makes more money could pay a little more often. Unfortunately in the US the income inequality between sexes is much bigger than it is in Sweden. Maybe that's why women expect men to pay more often. I can even say from experience that male friends who make more than me usually pay for our outings, though mainly they're small (quick dinner, coffee, ice cream, popcorn at the movies). But I also pay for girlfriends who are still in college and have little disposable income. @Jacqueline- Definitely, when men pay, it's very nice gesture and quite sweet. Do you think it steams from the fact that women seem more invested in dates so men pay for the first few? Or something else? Any thoughts from others? @Pontus- Thanks for your input. I cannot think of an equivalent to våp but those kinds of girls definitely exist everywhere. And I agree, if someone invites you out for dinner, that person should pay. But at the same time, if you happen to be a girl, it is okay to ask a men out to dinner and for the GIRL to pay.

@Ingela- Yea, I was not too clear on defining it on Twitter but I’m happy with everyone’s input. I agree with the point that the person who makes more money could pay a little more often. Unfortunately in the US the income inequality between sexes is much bigger than it is in Sweden. Maybe that’s why women expect men to pay more often.
I can even say from experience that male friends who make more than me usually pay for our outings, though mainly they’re small (quick dinner, coffee, ice cream, popcorn at the movies). But I also pay for girlfriends who are still in college and have little disposable income.

@Jacqueline- Definitely, when men pay, it’s very nice gesture and quite sweet. Do you think it steams from the fact that women seem more invested in dates so men pay for the first few? Or something else?

Any thoughts from others?

]]> By: Jaqueline http://lostinstockholm.com/2009/04/15/to-go-dutch-or-to-not-go-dutch-that-is-the-question/#comment-1125 Jaqueline Fri, 17 Apr 2009 06:18:45 +0000 http://lostinstockholm.com/?p=172#comment-1125 Hi there :) This is such a gray area for me because up until recently I've only dated broke musicians. It has almost always been dutch or me fronting the money.....Its a huge turn off. If a guy invites a girl out he should pay. That being said it could be anything from Coffee to a gourmet meal. It is not the amount that counts to most women but the gesture. The first few dates is really where I think that men should take the initiative as far as paying goes. After that it should be equal. Hi there :)

This is such a gray area for me because up until recently I’ve only dated broke musicians. It has almost always been dutch or me fronting the money…..Its a huge turn off. If a guy invites a girl out he should pay. That being said it could be anything from Coffee to a gourmet meal. It is not the amount that counts to most women but the gesture. The first few dates is really where I think that men should take the initiative as far as paying goes. After that it should be equal.

]]> By: Ingela http://lostinstockholm.com/2009/04/15/to-go-dutch-or-to-not-go-dutch-that-is-the-question/#comment-1066 Ingela Wed, 15 Apr 2009 18:38:31 +0000 http://lostinstockholm.com/?p=172#comment-1066 Good post! I see from your other tweeps´s answers that we understood the question differently, I knew what going Dutch meant and didn't think it needed explaining... possibly Swedish naivité :-) What I couldn't explain on Twitter for obvious reasons was that I basically have the same ideas as Pontus. If I am dating a man and I am making more or less the same money as he is, then there is absolutely no reason for him to be always paying for things. If however, one of us is making significantly more money than the other person then I think it would be ok if the richer person pays more often (based on income differences, not sex). I would do it anyway, if I were the one making the big bucks. I don't care about money, I care about having a nice meal with my dude (if I had one :-)). Good post!

I see from your other tweeps´s answers that we understood the question differently, I knew what going Dutch meant and didn’t think it needed explaining… possibly Swedish naivité :-)

What I couldn’t explain on Twitter for obvious reasons was that I basically have the same ideas as Pontus. If I am dating a man and I am making more or less the same money as he is, then there is absolutely no reason for him to be always paying for things. If however, one of us is making significantly more money than the other person then I think it would be ok if the richer person pays more often (based on income differences, not sex). I would do it anyway, if I were the one making the big bucks. I don’t care about money, I care about having a nice meal with my dude (if I had one :-)).

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